SABRE/MAGNA FAQ(v2.0a December 2001) |
Many thanks to
Download the whole FAQ in ZIP format
SabMag mailing list commands (including how to subscribe)
Archive of selected olde SabMag messages (if you don't find it in this FAQ, it may very well be here)
Corrections, omissions, missing links
This FAQ is intended to supplement the Honda and Clymer manuals, NOT replace them. In our opinion, anyone who isn't experienced in the procedure in question has no business wrenching on a bike without a manual, especially where safety-related systems such as brakes are concerned. The intent is to provide tips that don't appear in the manuals, and to relate list members' experiences on a variety of topics that frequently are brought up on the SABMAG list. Obviously, we cannot be responsible for any adverse consequences to your bike or your person. Wrench at your own risk.
CAMS/CAM CHAINS/CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS
DIFFERENCES
EXHAUST SYSTEM
FANSTAT (RADIATOR FAN THERMOSTATIC SWITCH)
GEARSHIFT FAILURE
IGNITION
MAIL ORDER (GENERAL MOTORCYCLE SUPPLY)
MANUALS, ERRORS/OMISSIONS/EXCEPTIONS
MANUALS, WHERE TO BUY
Coveted out-of-production accessory for Magnas. Adjustable in forward/backward direction on rails that mount alongside the grip rails and are attached by the upper shock mount bolt and the bolts through the underside of the fender into the grip rails (Magnas). Used parts dealers or private purchase.
One list member's report on fitting a KG Slider from a CB750 onto a SabMag:
Materials:
1. 10 - 8mm bolts.
1.a 6 - 8mm nuts
2. 3 feet of 3/4 inch stainless stock. Do
yourself a favor and make sure you use stainless steel. It's stronger,
and plated steel does take to the bending required for brackets.
3. KG Slider from a CB750.
Bracket fabrication was pretty easy. First, a L
shaped bracket from the front hole on the underside of the grab rails.
This lined up with the farthest forward hole on the KG Slider. Then a U-shaped bracket running from the forward mounting hole for
the rear turn signals to the rear hole on the KG Slider. finally, I drilled a hole in the rear grab rail directly
above the rear mounting hole on the KG Slider and ran a bracket to there as
well.
BACKREST, HOLESHOT
SabMag list member Dave Berkey
sells a backrest and “six-pack” rack for V65 Magnas
through Holeshot:
http://www.holeshot.com/v4/v4_bckrck.html
Posts favorable to the following were received.
(1)PIAA Corp.
800-525-7422
fax 503-643-9144
Call for free catalog.
(2) Motolight, Inc.
1137
513-721-2110
From a list member: "Two small teardrop halogen fixtures, mount on lower fork legs, 35w apiece; $245.00 plus shipping, 1 year warranty on everything including the bulbs. ...incredible amount of light...great... in conjunction with either your low beam or high beam...terrific...in low visibility situations...first rate quality...complete with all wiring needed and an on/off switch...Installation is very easy."
Chaparral carries some "Accents and Accessories for the Honda Magna." See
http://www.chaparral-cycle.com/touring/magna/accents.html (UPDATED: this link is broken, and I can’t find it on chaparral-racing.com) for:
Dimensional radiator grille (V65 83-86)
Embossed dimensional emblems
Eagle design (V45 & VF700)
Wing design (V45 & V65)
Chrome kickstand (Magnas 82-86)
Master cylinder cover sets (V65 85-86, V45 83-84)
Nameplate cover (V45 82-83, VF700 84-86)
Air cleaner cover sets (V45 82-83, VF700 84-86 except CA)
Taillight grille (V65 83-86)
SAFETY
The following are recommended:
(1) SOS Pulsar headlight modulator
Sound Off Safety Inc.
616-669-0232
(2) Starburst headlight modulator (single channel)
Kriss Industries Inc.
520-629-8800
fax 520-622-5995
(1) The Hyperlite is recommended by two list members.
Hyperlite auxiliary brake light flasher system
M & G Accessories, Inc.
Marie & Gary Chatham
(919)847-6819
mailto:mgacc@ibm.net
"Developed for BMWs but easily adapted to other bikes... consists of 16 small, very bright red LED's mounted in two 1"x1"x 3/4" units (approx), 8 LED's per unit. They are mounted on any flat rear surface that allows them to be aimed straight behind you. When you apply your brakes, the Hyperlites flash very rapidly. ...I have them mounted on either side of my taillight."
Hyperlite installation notes (V65 Magna): Remove the seat and toolbox. Loosen one grip rail. Remove the other grip rail and remove the phillips head screw attaching the plastic trim underneath to the frame.
Remove the two nuts attaching the taillight assembly to the fender. Remove the taillight assembly. Place the Hyperlite flashers on the outside, one on either side; run the wires inside and just leave the lights hanging for the moment. Replace the taillight so the wires pass through the small spaces on either side of the taillight assembly. Reassemble everything but the toolbox and seat. Connect the wires according to the instructions and test the lights. Peel and stick the lights to the sides of the taillight lens.
(2) Priority Lites: turns rear signals into running lights that flash when you hit the brakes, around $35 - $40. MO houses.
Priority Plus: as Priority Lites, and adds flashing brake light, around $65 - $70. MO houses.
Hotshot Modulator: similar to Priority Plus, around $120.
Since space under the seat is at a premium on Sab/Mags, you might have a little trouble figuring out where to put Priority Lites and Hotshot control modules. It can be done, though; one list member has a Hotshot on his V65 Magna.
DIY. At an auto supply store, obtain turn signal sockets that are built for running lights, like the ones that come on the front of your bike. The socket is the part that actually holds the bulb. It will have 3 wires: ground, running light, and signal light. Remove the rear 2 wire sockets and install the 3 wire sockets. Connect the ground and turn signal wires to the existing corresponding wires. Connect the running light wire to the same power source as the front running lights. Install 1034 dual filament bulbs. Viola, rear running lights.
We have a favorable report on the following vendor of high visibility vests and stick-on products for your bike, luggage, or helmet:
Conspicuity
(708) 697-4550
Coveted out-of-production Hondaline accessory. About 13" tall with a little zipper pocket on the back and a tiny tail rack. Used parts dealers or private purchase, or order a new aftermarket one from Holeshot above.
From one list member:
Found a K&N that is almost a perfect fit for the big Sabre. Just a little trimming around the gasket. K&N 33-2034.
More from the list:
V65 Sabre:
In lieu of :17210-MB3-000 ELEMENT, AIR CLEANER $9.38 at
http://www.servicehonda.com/
The KN filter for a 91-94 Saturn (KN 33-2055) fits the air box on the V65
Sabre
According to Robyn Landers, this is typical of early to mid 1980s Hondas in general. The cause is a somewhat wimpy connector that would probably be OK if it never got dirty or corroded, but it does, with resulting overheating.
Solutions:
If the battery sensor on a Sabre won't go out, here's advise from one list member:
The sensor needs to see a certain voltage to work. Two options as I
see it:
1. Get a new sensor from the battery distributor
and try it in each
cell till the light goes out.
2. Run a 10 KOhm
potentiometer from a switched 12-volt lead to ground
with the center terminal attached to the sensor lead. Adjust the
potentiometer till the light goes out.
Most procedures are well covered in both the Honda and Clymer manuals. Here are supplementary tips from list members.
The calipers have 2 single pistons; that is, there are 2 pistons that press on the outside pads, whereas the inside pads are held against the caliper body. Therefore, the caliper body is mounted on sliders or pivots to allow side to side movement. The pivot pins and sleeves often have not received proper maintenance and are corroded, sometimes to the point of being frozen. This can result in the inside pads wearing rapidly, and even eating up the (very expensive) rotor ($360 list for a rear one). The pins and sleeves should be cleaned up with a wire brush or emery cloth and lubricated with high temperature silicone grease. If they are badly pitted they should be replaced, as they might eat into the aluminum of the caliper. The protective rubber boots should be inspected for cracks and tears and replaced if damaged. Pivots should be inspected periodically and cleaned and lubricated if necessary.
The Honda shop manual doesn't specify the torque for the caliper bolt (the one that goes through the pivot collar or sleeve).
Solutions:
The pistons are likely to be hard to get out, but can be removed without special tools. After detaching the caliper from the bike but before disconnecting the brake line, remove the pads and put a piece of wood 1/2" or 3/4" thick in the caliper, so the pistons won't come all the way out. Using the brake lever, pump both pistons out until they are stopped by the wood. Chances are you can then pull them both out. (Don't use pliers or anything that could burr or distort the pistons.) If necessary, put in a thinner piece of wood and repeat, or, if one is stubborn and one loose, block just the loose one till the stuck one comes out. Remove the seals and clean any crud out of the inside of the caliper using a small wire brush, steel wool, fine emery cloth, etc. and brake fluid, then wash with hot soapy water, rinse, and dry thoroughly with a hair dryer or compressed air. Unless you really know what you're doing, you probably shouldn't use a hone. The caliper body is aluminum & it would be too easy to overdo it. If you do use a hone, be very careful to remove only the crud, not any metal. Be sure to get any crud out of the seal grooves. (You can make a little scraper out of something like brazing rod for this.) Clean up the pistons with hot soapy water or brake fluid and a brush or nylon dish scrubber or the like. Don't use coarse abrasives on stubborn deposits or superficial corrosion; use crocus cloth or very fine wet-or-dry paper such as 1000 grit with water or brake fluid. The pistons are hard chromed and polished, and if there is deterioration of the surface that cannot be readily polished out, they should be replaced. Lightly lubricate the new seals and the pistons with silicone brake grease and reassemble.
After replacing the calipers, bleed the system until clean fluid with no air comes out. If done as described in the manual, you may need to also bleed at the joints of the tee on the front, and you may have to crack the banjo bolt on the master cylinder as well. Drape old towels all over to catch spilled fluid. A MityVac vacuum brake bleeder is nicer, available at auto supply stores or from
HOSES
Check the hoses for cracks. It's rare for one to fail, but they are after all 10 years or more old. Consider replacing them with braided stainless lines, which can improve brake feel because they swell less under pressure. These are available in kit form from Russell, or you can buy components and make up your own. The Russell ones cost about the same as factory replacements, around $165. One thing about these: you occasionally get one with a banjo fitting that doesn't quite line up, putting a twist in the line. Braided lines don't like this, so it should be returned for one that fits correctly. See PARTS and/or CAMS below for sources of hose and fittings to make your own; list members report good results using AN-3 line and appropriate fittings. (Apparently there is a wide variety of bends and angles for the banjo bolt fittings when you use #3 line.) Another alternative is to take the old lines to a hydraulic equipment supplier that handles the necessary components and have them make up a set.
Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse lists Russell brake lines for SabMags:
While you're doing the calipers consider installing a master cylinder kit. If the bore of the master cylinder is badly pitted, replace the master cylinder. If it is only lightly pitted or glazed, hone the bore with a brake hone lubricated with brake fluid. Flush thoroughly with brake fluid, or wash with hot soapy water, rinse, and dry thoroughly. Make sure to get any crud out of the hole in the bottom of the reservoir. Reassemble. Prime by partially filling the reservoir and pumping the lever with a finger over the banjo bolt hole until mostly bubble-free fluid comes out around your finger. Reconnect the lines and bleed at the calipers. Turn the handlebars lock to lock and tap the master cylinder with a rubber mallet to free up any last stubborn bubbles, then bleed again to remove them. In especially stubborn cases, you might have to take the master cylinder off the handlebar and hold it vertically and rap it. If all the air is out of the system and the lever still feels mushy or moves slowly under pressure, the master cylinder needs to be repaired or placed. (MCN 9/96 p. 9; Rider 10/96 pp. 70-71.)
REAR MASTER CYLINDER PUSHROD PIN
This can be a bitch to get out. Try depressing the brake pedal as far as it will go. This positions the pin into a spot where there is a little more room. The lower you can press the pedal the better. The pin will hit the exhaust collector just before it clears the spline from the brake pedal. You may be able to remove it by pushing the pin up towards the top of the collector and working it out. An easier method is to loosen the front nut of the two nuts by the push rod bracket that accepts the brake pedal pin and unscrewing the rod from the bracket.
Brake (and clutch) fluid should be changed periodically, since it is very hygroscopic and inevitably absorbs water, which contributes to corrosion in the system. Intervals? Yearly, at least in moist climates; every 2 years may be OK in dry areas. DOT 4 fluid is required. It has higher wet and dry boiling points than DOT 3, which is also glycol based. DOT 5 is silicone based and is not compatible with the systems on Sabres and Magnas.
Honda OEM and EBC greens are given favorable reports. EBC blacks are less well liked, being rated by two list members as OK but inferior to OEM. No reports on SBS or other brands.
DRP offers bolt-on Goodridge teflon braided s.s. brake and clutch hose kits for V45 and V65 Sabre and Magna models.
Dodge Racing Products,
Information from one list member on Galfer:
Galfer-USA (galfer@silcom.com or 800-685-6633)
They said it was $95 for any custom lines. They had them to us next day (they are only about 55 miles from the house so it was quicker than you East-coasters can expect).
Sandro quoted me $85 for a two-line kit, and $42.50 for the single line one on the rear.
All banjo fittings seem to have about a 20-25 degree bend to them at both the master cylinder and caliper ends; I'll have to get the exact degrees to request from Sandro tomorrow. He'll stick a "Y" banjo fitting at the front master cylinder for the 2-line conversion.
Front left line: 45.5 inches
Front right line: 48.5 inches
Rear line: 18 inches
These measurements are for the hoses themselves, and do not include the banjo fittings. Be careful to specify this, as someone might assume you're including the banjo bolts and take off a couple inches. All banjo fittings have a *12* degree bend to them at both the master cylinder and caliper ends, not a 20 degree bend as I guessed.
He'll stick a *double* banjo fitting at the front master cylinder for the 2-line conversion, instead of a "Y" fitting as I thought. Turnaround time is one day from when you give him your order. They can't process a phone credit card order, so they usually ship next-day UPS COD.
Early Honda V4s tend to have problems with the valve train:
These are well-known and covered in depth at: http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/. Modifications to the cylinder head oil supply to prevent cam/follower damage are described on this web page. The most professional job, however, essentially duplicates the Honda Racing modification, which used AN-3 line, and is described in Tony Donisi's modification and illustrated in TONYSMOD.GIF. WordPerfect 6.1 (*.WPD) and Word 6 (*.DOC) versions are also available. This also describes how to add an oil pressure gauge.
We recommend that you verify the oil pressure after doing an oil mod, since a few instances of low oil pressure after a mod are reported. (See OIL PRESSURE.)
DRP offers both the filter adapter and drill/tap styles. Price range $159.00 to $249.00.
Dodge Racing Products,
Dale Walker's Holeshot (408-761-2808) lists a V4 oil mod for $289.00, which brings oil from the oil filter adapter to the heads. Holeshot's web page
Review and installation of Holeshot kit.
Amol Motorcycles in NJ (201-384-1103) used to offer a similar mod and maybe still does. (See OIL).
Why not just tee off of the oil pressure switch?
Other list members have made pressure measurements at this engine point and have concluded that the pressure and volume is not sufficient to solve the oiling problem.
It is not necessary to remove the cams for this, nor is it necessary to remove the engine from the frame. Changing cam chains is a bitch unless you use master link type chains, because you have to tear the engine down to the crank, and the engine/tranny of a V65 weighs around 200 lb. This is described in an article on the above web site.
[Does anyone know of a source of master link type cam chains? DID?]
See http://www.island.net/~areitsma/
for information on Shadbolt Cams in
Cams reground by Megacycle are available from Dale Walker's Holeshot (408-761-2808). Cams are $466 for four + $47 per follower, exchange required.
DRP offers numerous cam grinds from mild to wild for all V-4 Honda's 1982 to present. Cams are hardfaced and reground to proven specs with prices starting at $399.00 per set (exchange)
Dodge Racing Products,
The following description of CV (constant velocity or constant vacuum) carbs is based on an '85 V65 Magna but should apply pretty closely to other models.
In these carbs there are two fuel systems for controlling the fuel/air mixture at low and high engine speeds. The low speed system consists of the starter jet, the slow jet, the air jet, and the pilot screw. In the carb throat on the airbox side of the throttle butterfly is the opening of the air jet. This feeds air into the low speed system to help atomize the fuel as it exits the jet openings. These are located in the throat just under the edge of the butterfly in the fully closed position. The one just at the edge of the butterfly is the bypass hole and is the opening of the starter jet. The other 3, located slightly on the engine side, are for the slow jet and the enrichener circuit ("choke").
The pilot screw controls the flow of air from the air jet and is used to adjust the idle mixture. At idle, a tiny amount of air passes around the butterfly and draws fuel from the bypass hole. At modest butterfly openings, up to 1/4 throttle or so, the incoming air draws more fuel from the low speed system, with the slow jet providing a larger proportion of the fuel as the throttle is opened.
As the throttle is opened further and engine speed increases, the high speed system comes on line. This consists of the main jet, the vacuum piston or slide, and the jet needle, which is held in the slide with the pointed end in the main jet. When the slide is all the way down, the fat part of the needle mostly closes off the flow of fuel from the main jet. The slide doesn't quite completely occlude the carb throat, allowing a small opening for the mix to flow through at low throttle.
As the throttle is opened, the slide at first is held down by its spring. As engine speed increases, the velocity of the flow of air under the slide and across the air lift hole increases, creating an increasing vacuum in the space above the diaphragm. The amount of vacuum controls the height of the slide, which controls the position of the needle and thus the amount of fuel entering the mix from the main jet. When engine speed is high enough the slide is lifted all the way up and the flow of both air and fuel are at maximum. Thus, above about 1/4 throttle it is the slide that controls delivery of the mix to the engine; the butterfly controls it only indirectly. At WOT the low speed system is still delivering fuel, but its contribution becomes proportionally smaller as speed increases. (Shoemark P., Motorcycle Carburettor Manual, Haynes Publishing Group, Newbury Park, CA, 1981; ISBN 0-85696-603-7)
Neither the Clymer nor Honda manual goes into enough detail about getting the carbs out of and back into the connectors. Follow the instructions in either manual, with the following additions. This is based on a V65 Magna, but should be generally applicable to others.
Removal:
To reinstall:
If the connectors are old and hard the carbs may be hard to R&R. Consider replacing them; they are about $10 each list.
There are a couple of approaches here. The basic or minimum-diassasembly method is recommended in the Clymer manual, which says that if you need to separate the carbs you should take them to the dealer. OTOH a complete rebuild, with a thorough cleaning by immersion in carburetor cleaner and such things as proper lubrication of the felt throttle shaft lubrication rings and replacement of fuel joint and air joint O-rings, requires complete disassembly. The Honda manual provides instructions. However, basic inspection and cleaning can be done without separating the carbs. If you do take them apart, eyeball the initial balance by lining up the throttle plates with the bypass holes before reinstalling them.
Do you need 4 $30 rebuild kits? Unless you have to replace parts, this also is your call. Many list members have re-used parts like float valves and bowl gaskets successfully.
According to a Honda America employee:
"Don't put silicone anywhere on a carburetor. A very light coating of Gaskacinch (the Japanese equivalent of what is used at the factory) works good. If the gasket appears limp, or if injudicious use of carb cleaner has made it swell and become difficult to glue down, drop it in a container of hot soapy water for several minutes to normalize it. Then lightly coat it with Gaskacinch, let dry, and very lightly coat the bowl groove, and let dry, and put them together."
Note that the Honda manual says to remove the starter jet. The starter jet is removable only on some Sabres & Magnas; on others it is pressed in. There appears to be no particular pattern to this. If it doesn't have a screwdriver slot or hex on it, take the hint. Otherwise just follow either manual. If you have a vernier caliper of the kind where the sliding part sticks out of the butt end when you open it up, the sticking out part makes a pretty decent float level gauge. Make sure carb cleaner or WD-40 blown into all the appropriate orifices comes out the holes in the carburetor throat, and don't forget the air jet orifice upstream from the butterfly. (Be careful not to get carb cleaner in your eyes.)
There is something of a controversy regarding use of wire to clean jets, and technical columns in magazines don't agree on this, either. OTOH there are times when there's something in there so stubborn that only a good stiff wire will get it out. The key thing is to not damage the orifices, so it would be best to use a carb cleaning tool, which has smoothly ridged wires of various sizes. They are available by MO from various sources, and similar if not identical tools are sold by welding supply stores for cleaning the tips of oxyacetylene torches.
One thing you must do: keep the parts from the different carbs separate; some of them are not the same. Large numbered zip lock freezer bags work well for this. One list member recommends replacing "all those worthless phillips head screws" with corrosion proof allen head screws--on the bowls, top plates, and especially on the airbox. See PARTS for sources of such items.
This is pretty straightforward; you mostly just follow the manual and the instructions that come with your synch tool. A big floor fan blowing on the radiator helps keep the coolant temp down while you're working, or if you have a fanstat bypass switch installed turning it on also helps. If you've had the carbs apart, eyeball the initial balance by lining up the throttle plates with the bypass holes before reinstalling them.
Mercury tools are inexpensive and never need adjustment, but mercury is poisonous and environmentally incorrect. If you're not careful the mercury can get sucked into the engine. It won't hurt the engine, and the instructions that come with the tool should explain how to purge it. Dial gauges don't contain mercury, but good ones are expensive.
You have to have some sort of angle drive tool to turn the synch screws. The Honda tool shown in the manual lists for around $60.
Alternatives:
There are a couple of common situations where some tuning may be needed.
Don't panic, you may not need a clutch rebuild. First, make sure the
hydraulic system is working properly. Air in the system and/or crud in the
clutch cylinder can prevent the clutch from engaging fully. Try
bleeding and flushing the system. If that doesn't do it, either the
cylinder is malfunctioning or the clutch does need attention.
DRP offers performance Kevlar clutch kits available for all V45 and V65 models 1982 to present.
Dodge Racing Products,
One LM’s experience installing a Dodge
clutch: http://www.crosswinds.net/~denbrook/Motorcycles/KevlarClutch
BETWEEN SABRES AND MAGNAS (beside the obvious) [Anyone?]
|
'83 VF1100C V65 Magna |
|
|
Model Year |
1983 |
|
V.I.N. |
JH2SC120XDM000029- |
|
Engine |
SC12E-2000039- |
|
Product Code |
MB4 |
|
Color |
Pearl Siren Blue or Candy Maroon |
|
|
Cast wheels with "Star" shaped design, headlight shel, instruments & Fr Fender are chrome '83-'86, speed nos. in increments of 10 ending with "0s" '83-'84, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system '83-'85. |
|
'84 VF1100C V65 Magna |
|
|
Model Year |
1984 |
|
V.I.N. |
49 State - 1HFSC1204EA100001- |
|
Engine |
49 State - SC12E-2100001- |
|
Product Code |
MB4 |
|
Color |
Black or Candy Andromeda Red |
|
|
|
|
VF1100C'85 V65 Magna |
|
|
Model Year |
1985 |
|
V.I.N. |
49 State - 1HFSC1209FA200001- |
|
Engine |
49 State - SC12E-2200001- |
|
Product Code |
MB4 |
|
Color |
Black or |
|
|
California model designation is VF1100CL'85, Speed Nos in increments of 10 ending with "5's" '85-'86, Control levers with screw-type adjusters '85-'86, Push-to-cancel turnsignals switch '85-'86 |
|
VF1100C'86 V65 Magna |
|
|
Model Year |
1986 |
|
V.I.N. |
49 State - 1HFSC1203GA300001- |
|
Engine |
49 State - SC12E-2300001- |
|
Product Code |
MB4 |
|
Color |
Black or Candy Glory Red |
|
|
Side stand is chrome plated, FR & RR brake discs with inner cut-offs, Fiber optics integrated lock anti-theft system deleted. |
|
VF1100S'84 V65 Sabre |
|
|
Model Year |
1984 |
|
V.I.N. |
49 State - 1HFSC1707EA000001- |
|
Engine |
49 State - SC17E-2000001- |
|
Product Code |
MB3 |
|
Color |
Black/Pleiades Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Maroon/Silver |
|
|
|
|
VF1100S'85 V65 Sabre |
|
|
Model Year |
1985 |
|
V.I.N. |
49 State - 1HFSC1701FA100001- |
|
Engine |
49 State - SC17E-2100001- |
|
Product Code |
MB3 |
|
Color |
Black/Monte Rosa Silver Metallic/Red or Black/Monterosa Silver Metallic/Blue |
|
|
|
One SabMag list member reports the following data (measured from the underside of the handle to the "full" mark):
1984 V65 Sabre - 152mm (one data point)
1984-85 V65 Magna - 157-158mm (three data points)
V45 Magna - 147mm (two data points)
Should you remove it? Only if you feel it gets in the way of the oil filter. Other than that, all it does is divert fuel vapors from the gas tank to the charcoal canister. You will not suffer a performance penalty by leaving it on. The smaller jets of CA bikes should be more of a concern than the canister. Plus, you have to figure out which hoses and tubes go where, and plug them off. Forget to plug a vacuum port, and it'll run lean, and you might hole a piston. Just leave it alone.
DRP offers several stages of engine rebuilds for hot-street, drag racing and road racing. Cylinder head porting, custom valves, crank balancing and set-up, top case boring, transmission repair, blueprinting and complete engine building.
Dodge Racing Products,
Two books that are helpful for understanding how the electrical and ignition systems work, and therefore make troubleshooting easier, are
Both are available from Whitehorse Press (800-531-1133).
If your SabMag’s electrical system is
completely dead, check the main fuse.
No, don’t just look at it, physically remove it. The fuse frequently gets a hairline crack
that cannot be seen when it is in the bike.
ALTERNATOR
Information from a list member on tearing the motor apart and repairing:
The fan will come apart pretty easily and can usually be rescued from an early
(and expensive) grave.
Remove the fan from the radiator and take off the plastic blade assembly.
Locate and remove any locking rings and screws to allow separating the halves
of the motor.
Clean and lubricate the bushings, check the brushes and commutator
and
reassemble.
50% chance it'll work like new if you've never done it (90% if you've done it
before). The fan motor is a "pancake" design with flattened
armature windings to allow for a shorter motor. I think the brushes
contact the rear face of the commutator which is
different than most DC motors you'll see. This makes disassembly and reassembly
much easier. Be careful with solvents around the motor... Harsh
ones will remove the insulating varnish from the windings destroying the motor
(don't ask how I know this). I use synthetic motor oil/Duralube mixture (50/50) when lubricating sintered bronze bushings.
Doesn't dry out, and even if it does the Duralube
should keep
things happy.
There are a lot of SabMag posts related to ignition problems. The troubleshooting guide in the Honda manual is OK, but it doesn't explain how the system works. The following simplified explanation is adapted from Tranter.
The SabMag ignition system is frequently referred to as a capacitor discharge (CDI) system, but it is actually a more advanced transistorized system. Basically, there are two separate systems, one for cylinders 1 & 3 and one for cylinders 2 & 4, as diagrammed in the manual, with the major components of each being the pulse generator, spark unit, and ignition coil. Base timing is determined by the position of a protrusion on the starter clutch. (In the Honda manual for the V65 Magna, you can see it in the drawing at the top of p. 7-13 and under the left index finger in the top photo on p. 7-23.) The protrustion acts as a "reluctor." That is, when it approaches the pulse generator, which is a coil with a magnetic core, it induces a change in the field of the magnet that in turn induces a voltage pulse in the coil. A second pulse is generated as the protrusion leaves the pulse generator. Since the generation of these pulses is strongly dependent on the distance between the reluctor and the magnet, the air gap between the protrusion and the pulse generator must be correct.
In the spark unit, the "pulse shaper" adjusts the voltage signals from the pulse generator to give a clean cutoff of current to the primary side of the coils and to compensate for variations in pulse voltage due to engine speed. The spark unit also controls advance and dwell, amplifies primary voltage to the coils, and adjusts for variations in battery and alternator voltage. Their complexity and construction are why it is not practical to test or repair them. They either work or they don't. The 1-3 unit controls the tach, so a sudden loss of power and a failed or screwy-acting tach indicates a failed 1-3 spark unit.
From the spark units to the plugs, the system is pretty conventional, except that each subsystem fires both plugs every revolution. That is, each plug fires at the top of the exhaust stroke as well as at the top of the compression stroke.
We have one report of a coil that tested good according to the tests in the Honda manual, but which tested bad at the dealer's shop. Thus, if you're having problems with firing on the 1-3 or 2-4 cylinder pair, and it isn't the spark unit, you might want to have the coil tested by the dealer or an electrical shop.
One good thing to do with wiring harnesses is to take apart every connector and clean both sets of connectors. Get a can of good contact cleaner. A small awl for releasing the clip that holds the contact in the plastic connector, a tube of silicone brake grease, a pencil eraser (the slightly abrasive kind), and a small pair of pliers. Carefully tale apart each connector and spray the dirt out with the contact cleaner. Remove each wire from the connector, clean the male blade connector with the eraser and the wash off with the contact cleaner. Only remove and clean one wire at a time. That way you won't forget where it goes back. Very carefully tighten the curl on the edges of the female connector. If there is any corrosion clean it out with a small piece of 300 grit sandpaper. The corrosion in the blade connectors is the major cause of connector meltdown. If there appears to be corrosion where the wire is crimped to the connector, you can use a small wattage soldering iron and resin core solder to solder it. Don't over cook it. Squirt a blob of high temp grease in the connector before putting it back together and you should eliminate most electrical connector related problems.
The turn signal switch, kill switch, and rear brake switch, at least, can be disassembled and cleaned as above. Be careful when disassembling, as plastic parts can break and springs fly across the garage.
Fixing a finicky ignition switch.
As reported from one SabMag list member:
There is a small circuit board inside the instrument panel. It is about 2
inches by 2 inches [ 5cm by 5 cm ] in size. There are
4 wires going to that circuit board with the following colors:
Yellow / Blue Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Red Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Yellow / Green Goes to CLOCK SET Button
Green / Black GROUND Wire
Note: The CLOCK SET BUTTON is located on the panel between the
handlebars. Also have Check; Lamp Reset; and Trip Reset
nearby.
There are two others wires associated with the CLOCK circuit. They are located
in the plastic housing near the Clutch and choke actuator. The Sabre has a feature called Elapsed Time Clock. It can be
used for timing how long it takes to get from point A to point B. For example:
from mile marker 1 to mile marker 2. A switch at this housing controls whether
you are in CLOCK MODE or Elapsed Time Mode. This select-switch has 3 wires
going to it:
Green GROUND
Red / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument Cluster
Yellow / Blue Goes to MAIN circuit board in Instrument Cluster
I have a VF750S UK [ united kingdom ] Model , Colorized Wiring Schematic. It is
hard to decipher the Power wires that you need identified. There appear to be a
few that go into the instrument cluster and the related CLOCK circuit board.
Black / Brown appears to be a power wire as it comes from the fuse box
Yellow / Red appears to be a power wire
Red / Blue appears to be a power wire
Yellow / Black appears to be a power wire
Red is a power wire coming from the main 30A fuse
EXAMPLES: Black / Brown is a Black wire with a brown stripe
Yellow / Red is a Yellow wire with a red stripe
Red / Yellow is a Red wire with a yellow stripe
BEFORE going into the Instrument Cluster again; you may want to check the
wiring in the small electrical panel between the handlebars. Check the wiring
for the CLOCK SET switch for good connections. Next check the wiring in the
wiring-box that is located on the left handlebar. Open it up and check the
wiring for the CLOCK and ELAPSED TIME toggling switch. Then go into the
instrument panel for a check of those wires. I think that the Black / Brown
wire might prove out to be the power wire that feeds the clock. The Black /
Brown wire feeds power to the TACH; FUEL & TEMP UNIT; NEUTRAL LIGHT and
SPEEDOMETER as well as the TRIP CLOCK circuit. From what I can decipher; any
color code with GREEN in it appears to be a return path or GROUNDING wire. It
may well be that your Clock Instrument is toast. If power is getting to it and
its' ground wire is okay...... then it simply doesn't work anymore.
TURN SIGNAL FLASHER UNIT
STARTER COMPATIBILITY
From a list member:
The fiche shows the 82 through 87 750/700 Sabres
and Magnas have
interchangeable starters. The chain-drive bikes spin the opposite way so
stay away from Interceptors or 500 Magna starters. The numbers are a bit
different for the 1100cc SabMags so I suppose they're
slightly different
(maybe bigger).
Compatible part numbers: 31200-MB0-008 31200-MB0-405
31200-MN0-008
New price at Honda Suzuki North http://www.hondasuzukinorth.com is $319.55
The exhaust system can be removed and replaced without disassembly. You'll either need a helper, or use a floor jack under the collector. For removal, leave a little space above the jack, remove the fasteners according to the manual, and wiggle the system loose while lowering the jack in stages until the system is free. To replace, first put the packing sleeves on the rear headers and smear a thin coat of graphite grease on them. Then spread the openings of the connectors on top of the collector slightly. If they are rusty shine up the insides with a wire brush or emery strip. Smear the insides with a little graphite grease. Lift the system up so the front headers are in position, being careful not to bend the gaskets, and so the connectors on the collector are carefully lined up ready to slide over the rear headers. With some jiggling and gentle upward pressure from the jack they should slide on.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Exhaust system rattles not due to loose fasteners may be caused by broken welds holding the inner tubing in the double walled headers, or to loose baffles in the collector. Loose baffles apparently are one reason for the scarcity of salvageable collectors.
AFTERMARKET SYSTEMS
Holeshot lists Vortex 4-into-1 systems for Sabres, Magnas, and Interceptors. Chrome systems for Sab/Mags are $369-$389, and black ceramic finish ones are $379-$399. They are made by MAC and appear to be the same ones sold by MAC for somewhat lower prices. Dale Walker recommends installing a Dynojet Stage I kit with these systems. As of this writing, Kerker still makes a chrome 4-1 system for Magnas, which is listed by DK (over $500). Unfortunately both have noise levels >99dB and are sold for closed course (off-road) use only.
One list member who tried both systems for his Sabre reports that (1) the sound of the Kerker is better than that of the Vortex, (2) the Kerker appears to be better made, since the chrome on the Vortex system quickly yellowed, and (3) MAC apparently has stopped making the ceramic coated systems.
Slip-on replacement mufflers are available from Holeshot, DK, et al.
Unfortunately there are so many variables involved that there is no general consensus among list members as to what works best, and finding one you like is likely to involve some experimentation. Bar/fork mount models are less expensive and more easily installed than frame mounts, but have more adverse effects on stability and handling. Larger models offer more protection but more adverse effects on stability, handling, and top speed. Models that are designed, or can be adjusted, so that the airstream breaks clean from the edges, rather than churning up a lot of turbulence, will be quieter and more comfortable. Having your helmet entirely in a clean airstream will produce less noise and buffeting than having the top inch in a paint-shaker turbulent zone. Your height & posture also are factors, as is your helmet; some are quieter than others.
Getting Gold Wing-like protection may well require something so large you have to look through the plastic, which will result in at least some reduction in vision. There's always at least a little distortion, and it goes downhill from there as bugs, road grime, and scratches accumulate or if it rains.
FAX 481-4897
Snail Mail:
Gustafsson Fairing Screen
6310 US1N/PP Box 3567
"makes a taller replacement shield for the Honda Sport Fairing. They are also the only people that I know of that sell a "stock" replacement screen. Gustafsson claims to manufacture over 1000 different kinds of windscreens..."
HONDALINE Coveted out-of-production accessory, especially for Sabres. List members that have them love them. Used parts dealers or private purchase.
Someone posted that Mike's of
V65 Sabre manual: http://www.ultranet.com/~peloqun/Fairing.pdf
INEXPENSIVE BAR/FORK MOUNTS are available from
major MO houses, most from $50 to $150, various brands such as National Cycle, Cyclear, Slip Streamer,
Several list members report using or having tried the Natl Cycle Plexistar 2. Some thought it too noisy, others like it. Appears stable to at least 80 mph. You may get less turbulence over the top with it raked way back.
The Natl Cycle Deflector Shield is small, sort of a minimalist approach, inexpensive (less than $50), easy to install, and has a wide range of adjustment. Recommended by several list members.
One list member reports that he doesn't care for the Tracy Road Warrior on his V65 Magna and does not recommend it.!
PICHLER hasn't had dealers in the
Kunststofftechnik GmbH
Lauterbachstrasse 19
Industriegebiet
D - 84307 Eggenfelden
Tel: 0 87 21 96 90 0
Fax: 0 87 21 72 14
RIFLE (800-262-1237 http://www.rifle.com/) Cruiser windshields, sporty fairings, and replacement windscreens for Hondaline fairings. We have one generally favorable report on the Rifle Superbike Fairing, which recommends the optional 18" windscreen over the stock 15" one, and one favorable report on the Sport fairing on a Sabre. Regarding the Rifle Windshield System for Sabre/CBX, "... First off, you'll have to remove more than the old windscreen from the Hondaline fairing. Also gone are the strakes which fit around the mirror mounts. The downside to this is that the two holes for the front mount of each strake are left showing when all is done. Installation is relatively straightforward - but you'll want a very skinny person to help you. About the only way inside the fairing (to mount the nuts for the backside) is through the locking compartments. It takes a very thin and long arm, and plenty of patience. Once on, fit and finish are excellent, with the only design quibble being that they chose a 'pebbled' texture for the black plastic portion. Smooth would have made far more sense."
Another report on the Rifle:
"Add another favorable report for the Rifle Sport. It gives comparable protection to the Hondaline without lowers, but weighs much less. It's also the quietest windshield I've ever ridden behind. You might prefer the 15" windscreen with lower than stock bars on the Sabre."
SAENG/TA (800-868-7464). Winglets and "stealth" edging to "tune" the air pocket. One report: not impressed with either the winglets or the edging when used on a Natl Cycle Plexistar 2.
SPEC II (818-504-6364). A full frame fairing (uppers and lowers) for Sabres, $499.95, can be painted specific colors for you. One user’s web page.
